Cache Creek Craps
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The one at Barona was SIMILAR to Colusa.
They had 6 cards (A-6) at the top of the table (directly in front of the boxman) and each card represented a die facing. They placed these cards at the beginning of each 'hand', as to determine the dice outcome.
Just one set of six cards? How did they 'place' these cards. Can you describe the method in more detail, please?Since this thread got bumped today and this old question was never answered, I will give the answer I think is correct. At least I saw it played this way at one California tribal casino.
There are six rectangles in front of the box man, sized for one card each, and marked 1 through 6. There is one 'deck' of six cards, Ace through 6 (or maybe two decks that get alternated, don't remember.) The box man shuffles the deck, deals the cards face down to the boxes, then turns them over. Each number on a card is thus matched to a number on its box.
The shooter uses a normal pair of dice. When he/she rolls, the box man reads the dice and slides forward the cards in the boxes with numbers that match the dice. The faces of the cards represent the 'result' of the roll. If the dice are rolled as a double, only one card is pushed forward, and it represents a double roll of its number.
Cache Creek Craps Machine
In my opinion, this is the closest match of card craps to regular craps. It is equivalent to the dice having the numbers rearranged to different faces for each shooter. This would probably play havoc with dice setters' strategies, but otherwise, the game is very much like real craps. Apparently the deck of shuffled cards provides the additional layer of randomness that is required in California. If the deck happened to be dealt to the boxes as Ace through 6 in order, then for that shooter the game is actually standard craps!
I actually like the California version better - throwing dice is a fun part of the game, I think, and the card craps my friend was playing kind of shorted us on that!
Of course, I can play normal craps in town, so I don't have to settle for any card version of the game ;-)
Since this thread got bumped today and this old question was never answered, I will give the answer I think is correct. At least I saw it played this way at one California tribal casino.
There are six rectangles in front of the box man, sized for one card each, and marked 1 through 6. There is one 'deck' of six cards, Ace through 6 (or maybe two decks that get alternated, don't remember.) The box man shuffles the deck, deals the cards face down to the boxes, then turns them over. Each number on a card is thus matched to a number on its box.
The shooter uses a normal pair of dice. When he/she rolls, the box man reads the dice and slides forward the cards in the boxes with numbers that match the dice. The faces of the cards represent the 'result' of the roll. If the dice are rolled as a double, only one card is pushed forward, and it represents a double roll of its number.
In my opinion, this is the closest match of card craps to regular craps. It is equivalent to the dice having the numbers rearranged to different faces for each shooter. This would probably play havoc with dice setters' strategies, but otherwise, the game is very much like real craps. Apparently the deck of shuffled cards provides the additional layer of randomness that is required in California. If the deck happened to be dealt to the boxes as Ace through 6 in order, then for that shooter the game is actually standard craps!
I agree with you 100%. THIS is the type of game they have at Barona in Lakeside (San Diego) and NOW at Jackson Rancheria in Jackson (30 minutes east of Stockton)
Funny though...because I have been playing it lately in Jackson, and it's 100% a DONT table..Literally, I can make $500 in an hour, just playing a $10 flat dont pass bet. It's just P-7-O over and over and over...I dunno why it's so cold (or hot if you're playing the dont like me) but it is.
I agree with you 100%. THIS is the type of game they have at Barona in Lakeside (San Diego) and NOW at Jackson Rancheria in Jackson (30 minutes east of Stockton)
Funny though...because I have been playing it lately in Jackson, and it's 100% a DONT table..Literally, I can make $500 in an hour, just playing a $10 flat dont pass bet. It's just P-7-O over and over and over...I dunno why it's so cold (or hot if you're playing the dont like me) but it is.
I went to the Jackson Rancheria Web site, but no mention of craps. They do indicate they now have roulette, but no description thereof. I e-mailed the Rancheria last February, and they said no craps, but check back in six months. I suppose they only recently added craps and haven't yet updated their Web site. Or, maybe they just don't want to advertise the fact that they have craps. I went to the Cache Creek Web site, and they do not mention craps, either, unless you download the 'Gaming Guide'. So, it's there, but it's not out front.
I sent an e-mail to Jackson again, asking about hours for their craps game. It's about an hour and a half from my house, over six times as long a drive as Cache Creek, so I would not go there regularly, but I would like to check it out. It sounds like it works out exactly the same as the no-longer-existing Colusa method, but more efficient, needing just one set of cards. The probabilities should be exactly the same as regular craps, so I wouldn't read anything into your experience with the table being 'cold'.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA
I went to the Jackson Rancheria Web site, but no mention of craps. They do indicate they now have roulette, but no description thereof. I e-mailed the Rancheria last February, and they said no craps, but check back in six months. I suppose they only recently added craps and haven't yet updated their Web site. Or, maybe they just don't want to advertise the fact that they have craps. I went to the Cache Creek Web site, and they do not mention craps, either, unless you download the 'Gaming Guide'. So, it's there, but it's not out front.
I sent an e-mail to Jackson again, asking about hours for their craps game. It's about an hour and a half from my house, over six times as long a drive as Cache Creek, so I would not go there regularly, but I would like to check it out. It sounds like it works out exactly the same as the no-longer-existing Colusa method, but more efficient, needing just one set of cards. The probabilities should be exactly the same as regular craps, so I wouldn't read anything into your experience with the table being 'cold'.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA
I know huh?! You'd think they'd advertise the crap out of that!
The Roulette is like the one at Chukchansi Gold (It's got a big hopper similar to live Keno/Bingo)An hour an a half? It's JUST shy of that from me, and I go there weekly...(they have some good promotions).
The crap table is pretty much open 24/7 as far as I can tell, and it's CROWDED as much.
The probabilities ARE just the same..that's why I can't understand the coldness...even the pit/dealers realize it and jokingly say 'Lay the 4/10 $400 a piece', and have a good time with it (of course at the same time, people betting the PASS line are getting their butt handed to them)
If Jackson had better comps/marketing offers, I'd definitely switch over from Reno to it...but they just DO NOT comp on their table games....however, come January I may play more their...
Friday i was talking on the phone with my buddy. Both of out girlfriends were going to be out of town for the weekend, so we made our plans to screw around on Sunday. I wanted to go to a live casino and try betting the way suggested to me in my other post about going to Tahoe.
We rolled out of the east bay area about 8am and got to the casino about 9:30, good time.
I had stated to my friend that my reason to going was to play craps, that's it. I wanted to go sunday because i knew it would be a $10 min table on sat night.
Sure enough the craps table was already going with about 5 people playing and yes $5 min.
The sign on the table was '5-500' and nothing else, so i bought in for my 200 BR and asked what the table odds were. The dealer replied that it was 3-4-5. Did not matter because of the BR, but i was curious.
Played for about three hours total, at any point i was never down more than 80, and after it was all done i had came up by 97 when i colored up. My win goal was 100, so i call that close enough and toss the dealer the two dollar chips.
The play i used was close to what was Rec by the other members, but new for me as i had become used to playing pass+1x+place 6/8, this time i did PL+1X+2 comes1x ea.
If the point was made i had to decide whether to let the come bets ride out or add more, and if i was up, I would add one for a total of 4 working #'s. Worked out....mostly.
As per the advice from this board, i asked to keep my come odds working during come outs, and this did make me nervous....lost a couple times and won a couple times. Keep the faith, in the math that is! So i will prob do that more, but not if running low on chips.
Another thing i did that was out of my norm was to tip generously, I have read many comments here about this subject, and to be truthful i used to only tip the 'boys' was when i sometimes would play the hardways at 1/ea and 1 for them. Toss in a red.
This time was much different though, after hitting two points, I played 1PL followed by 1Xfor them.
the first time i did this it won, and i felt more respect from the dealers. Over the three hours I did this 7-8 times and it won 5 of those, plus I also did hard 10/4 two way for $2 only when it was the point. This hit for them also! It did seem to raise the dealers enthusiasm for the game, and i liked that. Also knowing that because of me they had another 30-40 in tips.
So, all done it was a great day. Left ahead, tried new things, and added close to 100 to the Tahoe BR. Sorry about rambling on here, should I have just put this in blog??
My advice to anyone reading- Try something new, but remember the Wizard's signature.
Next, I downloaded a copy of their gaming rack cards, and, sure enough, they list rules for craps. In the fine print, it just says 'Dice do not determine the outcome. See game for details.'
So what's the full story?
One red die, Faces odds, 1,3,1,3,1,3
One Blue die, Faces even, 2,4,2,4,2,4
Higher number displayed is the card turned over, three cards dealt, top sluffed, and one card in red box and one card in blue box, whichever die shows a higher number indicates which box for the dealer to reveal.
My friend hates this version, and i prefer the 'real' thing, but this works fine. I think it's 8 decks of A-6.
If the game is to be card craps, I really prefer the version in which the shooter rolls two standard dice. The box man has six cards, Ace through six, that he shuffles for each new shooter and then places them in six rectangles on the felt marked one through six. When the dice are rolled, they dictate the two boxes (or just one box in the case of a double), and the card(s) in the box(es) indicate the value of the roll. It is essentially equivalent to rearranging the pips on the faces of the dice with each new shooter. Rearranging the pips makes it more complicated for someone who thinks he can control/influence the dice, but the feel is very much the same as a real craps game, and the dealer has less frequent intervention in establishing the outcome.
I can't remember which California casino had that version when I was there. I have also played the version in which there are no dice at all, just cards that are shuffled and revealed.
California Craps
My first thought upon reading your post was, 'Is there a California casino that has a 'real' craps game, or is this some version of card craps?'
I am fairly certain that there are no tribal compacts in California that allow for 'real' craps (or 'real' roulette, for that matter), although I think electronic versions are allowed (that is, if you consider electronic craps 'real'). When they first allowed 'house-banked' blackjack, it was such a big deal in terms of news that I expect that any similar authorization of craps or roulette without cards would have the news widespread as well.
Cache Creek Craps Table
I am fairly certain that there are no tribal compacts in California that allow for 'real' craps (or 'real' roulette, for that matter), although....
Understood. When I read the 1st post, there was no mention of cards, and the poster sounded as if he had developed more enthusiasm for the game than I have been able to develop for card craps, so my mind began some wishful speculation. A little investigation mostly crushed those hopes, but I needed verification.
Where are you in Cali?
Jackson Rancheria has craps most similar to REAL craps..second to Barona in San Diego County...
Cache Creek Craps Game
I would prefer to go to reno/tahoe, but that place is close to home, not too far for a day trip.
NicksGaming - Thanks, i was wrong above, they are pics of dice on the cards
Timspeed - Why do you like jackson best? is it better somehow or just the game structure?
I have played cache creek, thunder valley, and river rock, but none of the Socal ones, or jackson.
I have plans to hit up lakeside inn per the recs here.
I can hardly wait, Tahoe bound in ~48hours. I'm going to work late tonight and try to earn an extra hundred or two, can't hurt right.
Cache Creek Craps Rules
Lakeside inn will be great fun..just remember to keep the boys on the line for $1 and $5 in odds and they'll treat you like a king!